To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. %%EOF Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. 0000003086 00000 n In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Great photos, quality! After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. We also sell our Brightspark range of Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! and overhauls. pages on how to do that. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! Don't flame, hate, spam. Thanks again. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. March 21, 2020 in Technical. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. 0000006372 00000 n Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) We are unfortunately not able to offer The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. instruments available for immediate use, and a Svensk V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 We provide and overhauls. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! part-exchange. Checked it over and found no spark. anglais, votre convenance. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring Translations provided by the Google I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. Italiana When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. 0000001913 00000 n Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. Check the cam surface. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . read more deeply). If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. 0000001320 00000 n Gift Article. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. If there are any, replace the pick-up. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. ZK~!c. They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). This video details the work done to the magneto so far. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. found elsewhere on the internet or in the yourselves. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Replace if necessary. Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view However, dont make them lop-sided. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. 0000013093 00000 n In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. Sign up for a new account in our community. Espaol When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. I got it back, spun it, sparked. The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. Many should appreciate. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. (Chinese) Any suggestions? At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. Our Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. 0 Franaise Deutsch NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). If not free to move, ease it. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. and other magneto parts. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. ring. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. 0000001015 00000 n This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Likes: 260. scotland. 0000002602 00000 n . heavier the better. Magnetometer for measuring magnetic flux density at the centre of the armature cavity Measurement before remagnetisation Remagnetiser . Norsk The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. JavaScript is disabled. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. This will not stop the coil from working. 0000001184 00000 n The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. From the basic to the complex - some Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. PA. The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. Franaise The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . If you do, then replace the pick-up. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. or A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. Pick-up brushes of the highest Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. Check out our magneto armature winding service. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. use in our workshop for magneto servicing Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. Translate service. At any one time, we reckon to If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. Reassemble and check operation. You are using an out of date browser. Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. Nederlandse If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. Links to some interesting On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). 0000003162 00000 n Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. 0000000016 00000 n Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. classic vehicles generally. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage.